As it says on LinkedIn, her “professional and personal goals are to always have a positive impact in the lives of others through my work.” In the corporate community, she is committed to listening carefully to the needs of clients, partners and colleagues. She strives to provide quality, innovative and cost-effective cyber security solutions that achieve collective goals with integrity. She believes the development and maintenance of positive, trusted and long-term relationships is paramount to any measurement of success. In all the communities she works with - corporate, educational and volunteer - success may be defined by the profitability of the company, the diversity of the workforce, student body and curriculum, and the engagement of membership. In the educational community, she is inspired by the students she teaches because of their tenacity and curiosity about cyber security. She aims to teach and mentor them with enthusiasm and encourage them to have the confidence to consider a career in cyber. In the volunteer community, She gives back to New York City - the city I grew up in and am proud to call home – by supporting the mission to exchange information and create public-private partnerships. Jennifer got her BA in English and Spanish at Columbia University and her Doctorate of Law from Cardozo School of Law with a focus on intellectual property. She is the founder and President of Women in Cyber Leadership Inc., works as a volunteer at InfraGuard, is the Global Head of Cyber Alliances, taught a cybercrimes course for iQ4, was the senior director for cybersecurity at Kroll, and had many other industry and volunteer experiences. She teaches now as a lecturer at Hunter College, CUNY, and has taught courses at the Guttman Community College at CUNY. She is an inspirational teacher who reaches students with practical demanding and supportive classroom instruction in a topic that could turn into their career.
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[JS: 0.0] Jennifer Mulvihill. As it says on her LinkedIn, her professional goals and personal goals are to always have a positive impact in the lives of others through my work. In the corporate community, she's committed to listening carefully to the needs of clients, partners, and colleagues.
She strives to provide quality, innovative, and cost -effective cybersecurity solutions that achieve collective goals with integrity. She believes the development and maintenance of positive, trusted and long -term relationships is paramount to any measurement of success.
In all communities with which she works, corporate, educational and volunteer, success may be defined by the profitability of the company, the diversity of workforce, student body and curriculum and the engagement of membership.
In the educational community, she is inspired by the students she teaches because of their tenacity and curiosity about cybersecurity. She aims to teach and mentor them with enthusiasm and encourage them to have the confidence to consider a career in cyber.
In the volunteer community, she gives back to New York City. She says, it's the city I grew up in and I'm proud to call it home. She does this by supporting the mission to exchange information and create public private partnerships.
She got her BA in English and Spanish at Columbia University and her doctorate of law from Cardozo School of Law to the focus on intellectual property. Jennifer is the founder and president of Women in Cybersecurity Leadership, works as a volunteer at InfraGuard, is the global head of cyber alliances, taught cybercrimes course for this company called IQ4, Jennifer was the senior director for cybersecurity at Crowell and had many other industry and volunteer experiences.
She teaches now as a lecturer at Hunter College, CUNY, and has taught courses at the Gutmann Community College also at CUNY. She is an inspirational teacher who teaches students with practical, demanding, and supportive classroom instruction in a topic that could turn into their career.
Welcome, Jennifer. It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast and to especially focus on how classroom teaching can be experiential when it impacts a diverse student population, looking for careers after college.
But first, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? For example, why did an English major go to law school and how did you get into the cybersecurity field?
[JM 2.44] Well, thank you, Jim. Thank you for having me. I'm very happy to be here. I've been looking forward to our conversation for weeks now, so very excited that it's finally time. I really believe in education, you know, even in high school, I had always wanted to go to college and then saw myself studying years beyond college.
So, I didn't want to stop at the college level. In addition to being an English major, I also studied Spanish language and literature. and for one of my work study jobs, my Spanish professor, Professor Alfred McAdam, had introduced me to the issues surrounding copyright law.
I used to translate novels from Spanish to English, and he introduced to me the themes in and around a translated work, what is preserved from the original text and what really considered a derivative work just by the nature of the translation.
It was the first time I had learned that there were these aspects of law. I always thought about law school and lawyers really more about negotiating, litigating, being in the courtroom. But Professor McAdam told me that, there's an area called intellectual property law, which might be a good fit for me, because I wanted to be more behind the scenes, do a little bit more research, and then really defend a text or defend the brand as opposed to an individual involved in litigation.
So, I started my career doing intellectual property work and it was only a matter of time before copyright infringements and trademark infringements started popping up online on the internet. And then other illicit activities started popping online the Internet and that's really how I became involved with cybercrime and cyber security.
The desire to protect our networks, protect data, and protect intellectual properties against unauthorized access or unauthorized use.
[JS 4.38] So, I'm going to go a little deeper if that's okay, because you seem to be doing a good deal of volunteer work from your bio that I've already read. So, talk about what motivates you to do that, and why do you think this kind of voluntary work is important?
[JS 4.54] For me, it's almost instinctual. I can't remember a time when I haven't volunteered, And I don't know where that came from, I just know that we all need help. I've needed help, I have been grateful, and I been very fortunate that people have helped me along the way.
And so I, I remember if somebody needs something or somebody has a question or somebody needs to spend time with somebody and I can do that. If there's something that I think I know or I have or have the time to provide for, I do.
And it's just, for me, it is just this natural reaction and I remember volunteering, you know, as early as in grade school when I could, supervising younger students in playrooms, also volunteering as a tutor in junior high school.
And I don't know that I have the answers or I do not know I that have everything everybody needs, but if I had something, I just want to I started to learn how to knit because coming out of COVID, I was looking for activities that didn't involve a computer since I'm so involved with computers and started learn to how knit.
Then I saw an organization that collect scarves, hand knitted scarfs for trips that are deployed overseas. And I thought, well, I am not a good knitter, but I think I can knit a scarf. And so it's just, it I've attracted to that.
And again, I don't think my scarfs are very good. I'm hoping they provide some sense of warmth, but I just, that's just a natural reaction I've always had.
[JS 6.33] Yeah, this is very interesting because I think you started from the point of view that someone helped you and you want to pay that forward. But it also seems like there's a part of your DNA that just wants to give that because you are giving back before you probably had a mentor who helped with your career.
I similarly had an experience where a mentor helped me decide to go into neuroscience research as opposed to going to medical school, which turned out to be the right fit. And I was, and am internally grateful to him for crossing that the line with me and talking to me like a human being instead of a college student, there was another number in his classroom.
So, I think that some of that is payback, but some of it also must be, as you pointed out, who you are. So, let's turn to the main topic of teaching now, which is what this podcast is about, especially in your case.
When you're working at key institutions that are well known to generate upward mobility in New York City, can you talk about why you were doing that as a teacher with these students?
[JM 7.34] You know, I believe in education. I think that education is sort of your ticket out if you are in a tough situation. I also believe, and my mom instilled this in me, that you can lose many things in life, but you could never lose your education and you can never have your education taken away from you.
And I think that the students that I'm working with, they've had a lot of losses in life and maybe they don't have a lot right now, but to give them education and teach them that no one can take this away from them, that they'll always have this is something that really motivates me.
I think education, it has given me a sense of purpose. It gives me a sense of self -worth, it gives me confidence, it also gives a, you know, sense of peace. I enjoy reading. I enjoyed writing. I think words are fun.
And I, I love sharing that sense of belonging, the motivation. I loved sharing that with students who maybe haven't thought about education in that way. And so, for me, just, it doesn't even matter what, a student is learning, and I've told them that as well. Just learn something, be passionate about something. We will always have that. No one can take that away from you and it will provide me with so many other opportunities. I relate to these students and I'm still not sure why I, you know, I am a native New Yorker.
I was raised by a single mom. She's a retired high school Spanish teacher. These students are often coming from homes with just a single parent. I watched my mom work hard over the years. She instilled in me that in addition to education, work provides you with a lot of selfworth.
And I see the students, they're coming from homes where they may have one family member, one parent working nights and weekends, two or three jobs. They themselves have to work multiple jobs, they themselves have to provide for their family but they're showing up at school and they never miss.
They never missed a class and that makes me want to show up for them and so I think it's this symbiotic relationship where we're both giving to each other and I've told them that the education plus the hard work plus showing off is going to bring a lot of success and a So that's why I think the student body that I'm working with, it was fortuitous that that was my first introduction to teaching.
It really brings out a lot of what is familiar to me. I may not look like them, but I think that we have the same values.
[JS 10.22] It's clear that, that comes across in the classroom, at least from talking to you here. So, I am going to ask a question that is related. Let's begin with the statement that in theory, the classroom is the ivory tower, but your reputation is real world. So, let's talk about the techniques and methods that you use in your classroom to get your students to see that and to bring that real-world impact to the classroom.
[JM 10.49] I am lucky because we're teaching in New York City. There's nothing more real word than New York city. It's diverse, it's an energetic environment and the students bring that into the classroom and I do too.
You know coming outside you know coming into the school from New York City streets, you have that energy. So, I make the classroom very realistic. And I'm also lucky I teach in cybersecurity, which is such a real-life topic.
The attacks happen daily, they're in the news. I can point the students to reading the news so they see that, yes, what we're learning here is actually real -life work. They can apply the skills as soon as they leave the classroom.
But I think trying to work with the students in a very realistic, practical way is what resonates with them. I think speaking to them and showing them that their skill sets, how they think, what they about is relevant, that it does matter, also makes them feel as if they matter and that they have a voice.
And cybersecurity is very welcoming to a diverse workforce. So students who've had that real life experience and then can look at a cyber-attack or look a threat actor and analyze that threat act not only from the material, but also from what they've done in their daily lives or what's they have seen, I think gives them that sense of confidence and it gives confidence to participate more.
And then they start to collaborate, and they then start work with each other. And so I think it spreads like that, and that to me breaks down that ivory tower viewpoint where no one's approachable or it's tough to raise your hand or communicate if everybody has a role to play and everybody is relied upon.
I think that that really breaks down, that sense of ivory tower. And the first thing I do every semester is I give every student a mock role that would be on a cybersecurity response team or proactive team.
And I just watched the student's reaction saying, oh my gosh, so I could think of myself as a CEO. It's like, yes, you can. You already have skills that would show leadership qualities. Like yes and we'll learn more.
And then at the end of the semester, they have to really assume their role and respond to a live event. And I've watched, I watched The Evolution from that first day when they write down the role to the last day where they actually proudly present in their role and they assume their personas.
And it's wonderful to watch that.
[JS 13.32] Right, that's really inspiring. And I think the idea of the role that they're assuming and the improvement that they see in themselves is a real world, even though you're in the belly of the ivory tower in the classroom, apart from the real world you've come off those New York City streets and now you're in a quiet little place.
But let me go to another question, which is, wasn't part of what I had said to you, but you've raised it in me. And that is the fact that cybersecurity is something that most citizens don't really understand.
And now they do. So that gives them a taste of what it's like to be elite on something. Do you think that that excellence and elite the feeling in these students is part of the inspiration that they could go out and do something that their parents have no clue about, for example?
Is that part it?
[14.26] Absolutely. I think that's a great question. October is Cybersecurity Awareness Month. And that a month where the cybersecurity industry is supposed to come together and also sort of pay it forward and teach each other, teach those who don't know about cybersecurity.
So, I ask the students to please either put together a poster or a flyer that could be shared amongst their family members or friends or neighborhood, you know, even at Loco Bodega, they could put a flier there just to show the residents and New Yorkers what it means to be cyber safe.
And I think that gives them a real sense of leadership and pride. You can actually sign up online and become a cyber security ambassador. And I do say, you know what, you no more than somebody else in your community.
So teach them. Now you're becoming the teacher and you are teaching them with practical skills and your teaching real time. And also notice, once I show the students how many attacks and how incidents are taking place in the news and point them to keeping up with the news, and writing about them real-time, they're excited.
and they start to bring in their own experiences with attacks. And unfortunately, every semester there's always one or two students who actually is the victim of some cyber breach. And maybe it's T -Mobile or AT &T, but it is something that they can relate to and then they bring-in their experience and then their empowered actually to take care of themselves.
Their empowered to sign up for some remediation tools. is they're empowered to call their carrier and say, I know that I've been a subject of this breach. Can I get a 5% discount on my bill next month?
And they do that, and they advocate for themselves. And so they are incredibly aware. And I think that that is a sense of, yeah, you're now leaders. You know something a little bit more than somebody else.
[JS 16.26] I think that's really important. As you know, I also teach at a public university and 40% of our students here are first generation and yours are higher in that percentage. And I think that sense of power that they get from knowing something and from being a leader as you talked about putting that poster up in the bodega is the key for experiential learning.
That you're now wearing those clothes that you've purchased with your time. And if it feels good, then that can be the key to your moving ahead in the world in any domain, especially in the one that you are training them in, but in other things as well. That's the inspiration, I think, that they have to take into themselves. And it seems like that's what you're doing in the classroom. And I think that that is really the best work that we can do.
So, I think we are coming near to the end of our time together. This was a really fascinating conversation, but I want to give you a chance to say something that you would like to say at the ends of the podcast about this whole operation of teaching cybersecurity to students that are maybe first -generation to go to college that don't have that confidence and you've talked about how you give it to them.
So, what would you like to add to the end of this podcast?
[17.42] Cybersecurity is a collaborative field. So, you know there there shouldn't be any egos in cybersecurity, there shouldn' t be anything that I can't contribute or what do I know about cyber, even from the perspective of the subject matter itself, the definition of cybersecurity that was codified by CISA, which is the Agency of Homeland Security, is, The Art of Protecting Networks.
So, they use the word art. And I think that's really important because when you hear cybersecurity, you think computer science, you'd think engineering, and the students think of that as well. So I do have a lot of computer -science students, But I do have some students, especially at Guttman, that have no diverse backgrounds, artists or singers.
And I explain that art, the art of protecting, that's artistic. That's what I relate to as a liberal arts major. So, there's diversity, not only in the subject matter, but there is diversity in the skill sets that are needed.
So, especially for first -generation students who speak multiple languages. Well, we need that because we're researching and protecting against threat actors that are global and they speak multiple languages.
So, even walking into the classroom day one and saying, okay, you don't think that you could be a leader in cybersecurity, do you speak another language? Yes. Okay. Well there you go. You're a Leader.
Now you can actually participate first day translating notes on the dark web. So there is a role for everybody in cybersecurity and part of my mission is to show them practically why that is and what their role could be and giving them that opportunity to think, oh yes, I could see myself in cyber.
So, that's part of the mission. I think I'm lucky that cybersecurity lends itself to sort of that discussion. And because we are really facing some serious threats, that sense of collaboration and teamwork is something that we need to foster.
And the students at Gutman, especially, they look out for each other in ways that I have never seen, I've never witnessed. I watch them email each, other on the weekends, checking on each another, making sure that assignments are being completed, making that they know when the tutoring sessions are, they're happy for other.
If somebody gets an interview, there's no competition here. I think they all really want to make it and they want to see each other succeed. So that's wonderful. That inspires me. And I guess I would say in closing, thank you for the opportunity to be on this podcast and speaking with me and listening to me because I think that the students probably know somehow that you're spreading this message and you know, you are supporting this method of teaching.
I feel like they are instinctive like that. They probably know. And then I want to say, you know, thank you for all the mentorship that you've given to me. And thanking my students, I really want to thank my students for giving me this purpose and, you know for showing up because they said in the beginning, they make me want to show up even more.
And so the last comments are about gratitude.
[JS 21.03] Well, that's great. And we are grateful to you for bringing, as you said, in your closing statement, the art of cybersecurity defense, together with the art of teaching, which seems to make room for students.
And that I think is a great metaphor. Maybe it's a little mysterious, but maybe that's good. But somehow it is absolutely working. That proof is clearly there for you. Thank you so much for participating.
We'll be back with another podcast. Thank you guys for listening. Let's continue the gratitude thing.
[JM 21.35]. Thank you.